It's not often that a musician doesn't want, or even need, to talk about himself. Especially if he's got new product to push and a tour to sell.
But Bruce Cockburn's in no hurry to steer our conversation off world politics and global economies and onto his new album You've Never Seen Everything.
That's because the new album's about world politics and global economies.
"I see things and talk about things, but the real activists are Doctors Without Borders, Greenpeace and Warchild. They're the real activists," he says bluntly. "It's our responsibility to speak out."
"If you can see the issues, the problems, you should say something about it and share it with people. That's part of being engaged and real about things in the world."
It's evident that his politics haven't softened much over Cockburn's 30-year-long career. If anything, it's the opposite. His music is a brilliant fusion of folk, worldbeat, roots and jazz with a sharp, live edge that gears up Cockburn's challenging and provocative lyrics.
Tunes like the album's first single Tried and Tested angrily resonate with the same passion as If I Had a Rocket Launcher.
One thing has changed. Ten, even 20 years ago, he was an angry militant, raising issues like a middle-finger salute.
But these days, particularly with the global political climate and the high-pressure system that is the American response to terrorism, his anger has morphed into fear and loathing.
"I'm fearful for the state of the world, but not depressed," he admits. "There's no value in hopelessness. It can be argued that being hopeful may be unrealistic and useless, but at least it has the potential to be something."
There, beneath the greying hair and the disaffected aging art student, lies a serious artist, one who has experienced art's ability to heal and transform.
"A guy in Sweden approached me after a show to tell me that my song All the Diamonds in the World had saved him from suicide," he recalls. "I'm not surprised by music's power to affect change; songs can have an empowering effect."
Produced by Colin Linden, You've Never Seen Everything is the jazziest of Cockburn's 27 albums, thanks to the spontaneous musical stylings of New York jazz pianist Andy Milne, fiddler Hugh Marsh, with Larry Taylor and Stephen Hodges from Tom Waits' rhythm section and guest vocalists Emmylou Harris, Sarah Harmer, Jackson Browne and Sam Phillips.
"It's about the music and not repeating yourself," he explains. "I try to avoid ground that I've gone over before. I try to stay fresh."
Cockburn launches his European tour in July, and plays the Ottawa Tulip Festival Victoria Day.
